Worth watching

This is one of the clearest, concise, straightforward answers I’ve heard in this whole debacle. What do you think?

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7 Responses to “Worth watching”

  1. urstupidnourstupid Says:

    I watched it, as I did most of the town hall meeting. I’ll say this, he certainly sounds good. He is a master at that no doubt. There were a few distortions in the meeting but I think most people know now that you can’t keep your health care if you lose or leave your job.

    (http://hotair.com/archives/2009/08/12/usa-today-fact-checks-obamas-town-hall-assertions/)

    So let’s try to add some clarity here and strip out the rhetoric and as much misinformation as possible. I would like your responses the these items and maybe try to figure out how and why we differ so radically. First let’s start with the Whole Foods concepts because we both agree that skyrocketing health care costs are a big problem.

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204251404574342170072865070.html

    I think that rather than HR Bill 3200, we should enact legislation that would reach the concepts presented in this article. I am glad that we are doing our best to help seniors with their health care and I am glad that we have a law that requires that anyone must receive immediate emergency care. But I think we have an entitlement culture and I don’t want to pay for other people’s health care who don’t have it. Why should I pay additional taxes, forgo better vacations or a nicer car while paying my insurance premiums while other people don’t make the sacrifices necessary to insure their health. Free health care is not a right and it will greatly expand the size of goverment which I am a against.

    So even if Obama answers every question perfectly and all of the claims made by the right wing nuts have no grains of truth at all, I am still 100% against this legislation.

    I downloaded HR 3200 so I could verify some of the more outrageous claims being made. This bill is practically in another language.

    The end of life counseling seems to make sense but it’s just odd that they would devote so many pages to it. I do understand why they would make it mandatory but it is a little scary that it is essentially a representative of the state that has a vested interest in making sure you are legally wrapped up to end your life. So I understand it, but it is a little creepy.

    One area that I really didn’t like was the requirement that hospitals must obtain approval from the government to expand. This is an assault of capitalism and it muffles the ability for private health care to provide adequate medical care based on market forces.

    I don’t like that business will be charged a maximum of 8% if they don’t provide health care. That is hefty. That is the profit margin for many business’s.

    I really don’t like that they are taking away low cost health care options (catastraphic) by requiring that any health care policy that wants to be approved, pay for most of the costs.

    The cost: Obama in his town hall meeting said the cost will be 8-900 billion over 10 years. I decided to back in the 47 million people we are going to cover and see how that works. 800,000,000,000 divided by 47,000,000 turns out to be $1702 a year. Wow. That is efficient and streamlined. I will be very impressed if the government can cut the cost of health care in half. And that is under the assumption that no employer will drop anyone from their health plan.

    The Congressional Budget Office did a preliminary anlaysis. They estimated that the cost of the bill will be slightly over 1 trillion dollars over 10 years. But, that the analysis did not consider the cost of administering the plan. It doesn’t say exactly what that is but right now health insurance companies administer plans and they employ a lot of people.
    Oh one other thing, the Senate version was estimated at 1.6 trillion.

  2. urstupidnourstupid Says:

    “I am glad that we are doing our best to help seniors with their health care and I am glad that we have a law that requires that anyone must receive immediate emergency care. But I think we have an entitlement culture and I don’t want to pay for other people’s health care who don’t have it.”

    That is a COMPLETELY hypocrical statement! So for someone who is 67, it’s ok, but not for someone who is 60? Well, I don’t have kids, so why should I contribute to public education? Well, because obviously it is beneficial to society, which is a socialist concept, right? Right. So a healthy populace is a good thing for society, right, no matter the age. So, how do we get there? Well the Whole Foods thing seems like a good idea. So WHY hasn’t the invisible hand of capitalism grasped on to this? Why don’t ALL companies adopt this plan, and if so why would the government need to get involved at all? The thing I like about the public option is the portability. I don’t know why health insurance is so linked to employment. It’s stupid, especially now with the flexibility and constant changing of jobs, and loss of employment. Of the hundreds of thousands of jobs that have been lost recently, what are those people supposed to do if they–or their kids–suffer a serious illness? You have yet to address this. What would YOU do if you lost your job for a prolonged period and was then diagnosed with some type of cancer? You’d be fucked!

    And regarding the thought that employers would stop offering insurance if there were a public option. First, if I remember correctly, they can’t. The firewall. Second, do you think companies like yours or any “high end” company would not offer a better (private) plan for its employees? People making over $70,000/yr probably work for companies that would continue to provide public insurance as a benefit, just as they do now. And maybe even adopt a Whole Foods model.

    “I downloaded HR 3200 so I could verify some of the more outrageous claims being made. This bill is practically in another language.”

    All laws are written like this. This is no different.

  3. urstupidnourstupid Says:

    It’s not hypocritical, it’s the level I’m comfortable with. At 60, it’s reasonable that you can work for a living, at 67, you shoud be able to retire. So at 67 it’s ok but not 60. That’s the level I’m comfortable with.
    Which is how I look at every issue. I’m ok with food stamps for a family of 4 who makes less than the poverty rate. I’m not ok with food stamps for a family of four who makes more than the poverty rate. Does that make me a hypocrite as well?

  4. urstupidnourstupid Says:

    What about the unemployment/insurance/illness question?

  5. urstupidnourstupid Says:

    I have never worked for an employer that offered insurance that DID NOT cover pre-existing conditions.

    And what if I get a hang nail? Should the government pay for my manicure? Do you want every single possible problem solved by the government?

    You can get catastrophic insurance and long term care insurance. It’s cheap. Put some money aside. Work a temp job while your looking for a real job. Work at the statdium on Sundays during the football games. That’s what I did two years ago.

    The possibilities of people’s troubles are endless, most of which are self inflicted. We have to draw a line somewhere. My line is no free healt care for every single person who doesn’t have it.

  6. urstupidnourstupid Says:

    I’m saying if you lose your job–through no fault of your own–and thus lose your insurance, and are then unfortunate enough to be in an accident or be diagnosed with an illness, you are screwed…and this should not be the case. Insurance and employment should not be linked. Temp jobs and part time jobs don’t offer insurance plans.

    You joke about hang nails and stuff like that, but these are the issues dude. What happens to these people? How many responsible, educated, white-collar workers are out of work and uninsured now?

    If you weren’t my friend, and something like this happened to you, I’d laugh my ass off and say “Too bad, sucker!!”

  7. urstupidnourstupid Says:

    It is an issue but I just don’t want a monstrous health care bill to deal with it. It would be terrible if that happened. You can get catastrophic health insurance and long term care insurance really cheap (at least you can now but it won’t be allowed if this bill passes due to the required coverage). It’s real easy to play the emotional card here and a common liberal utility. Just because something doesn’t make sense on a macro level, doesn’t mean that you should chastise or belittle someone when it happens to them on a micro level. That is just too easy. You can do that for pretty much anything. We could make health care so much cheaper by enacting just the reforms that the CEO of Whole Foods suggested.

    And health care is portable. It’s just very expensive when you take away the employment contribution. It’s a federal law called cobra.

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